Chinese Audio Product's. The jury is still out!

QUOTE (Grant Fidelity @ January 20, 2009 09:26 am)

QUOTE (socal sam @ January 20, 2009 01:16 am)

QUOTE (Grant Fidelity @ January 19, 2009 10:31 pm)

QUOTE (socal sam @ January 19, 2009 05:27 pm)

I heard a nasty rumor that the latest MC275 Series V is made in China. That is hard to believe. However, the Mcintosh branded output tubes are Russian and cost $150 each when you can get a marginally better Sov Tec for $30.

Ever browse the tubes in A-gon? Makes me wonder how many of the esoteric cottage brands are actually Chinese??

That would be a nasty rumour, seeing that McIntosh state they build it in their factory. Shuguang can easily build it, we've worked with them for a while now and they have built a lot of Jolida. That would suck too, McIntosh is America to me, as much as Harley Davidson.

Could be their getting parts from China, that's pretty normal out there now, where Made In .... only requires 15% of the effort. Some think putting it in the packaging box is 15%

As far as the Russian tubes go, they have a much higher failure rate then our Shuguang tubes, closer to 10% on large Russian tubes, and we are still counting on the smaller Russian tubes. A tube should fail with 90 days in the customers hands with an average of 4 hours a day use. If it is going to fail prematurely, or it should last it's life with the very rare occasional Tube God sacrifice.

Also seems to be that some tube type like shipping more than others.

Cheers,
Ian

Thanks for the reply Ian. I'm looking into this because I bought a MC275V thinking it was NOT Chinese and was American. I'm inquiring about the country of origin elsewhere. I sure hope the content of this Mcintosh is 100% American.

However, I suspect otherwise. I'm already slightly dissappointed that Mc specs Russian tubes. Why spec a Russian tube and brand it Mcintosh and then sell it for $150 each when you can get a Russian Sov Tec or Gold Lion for $30?

Please keep us informed on what you find out about your amp being made in China.

Rebranding tubes has been going on forever. There is some things that do effect the price, but yes that seems quite steep and I expect McIntosh know this but do provide the tubes for their more typical customers, who only want a McIntosh and don't go online to research.

The tubes you get from eBay, etc are usually the seconds or thirds that do not pass the the various degrees of matching (internal matching) and pairs match, or quality testing. McIntosh is likely paying a large premium for tubes to their exact spec. and then these tubes enter their distribution chain where mark-ups are the norm.

Our EH tubes for RITA or more expensive too than the online tubes, because they have to be perfectly matched in Quads for RITA.

btw, we've sold many hundreds of tube components, might even be getting close to 1,000. We work with very good Chinese Manufacture's face to face and have our own quality control methods in place. We have zero failures ( acouple of caps have popped) of gear or I'm sure you would have heard about it by now for some of the fighting I do up in Canada online.

Please don't put all Chinese products into the same category (your other post), or I may have to bring up things like the Ford Pinto or the Pharmaceutical industry in Canada or the US or Europe.

The person responible for that milk fiasco has likely already been excecuted, in our part of the world he would likely be promoted

Cheers,
Ian

Ian, I don't mean to say a few bad apples means the whole tree is bad. The fact you and Emotiva are going the extra mile supporting your customers AND literally are on top of your Chinese manufacturing partners tells me a lot, both good AND bad. I'm curious enough to try one but my trust in the product will only be gained with years of trouble free service.

social, that is cool. Stick with what works for you is fine and respected.

There is one clown up in our forums that bashed all things Chinese, until he admitted what he owned. Zero respect for that guy.

I wish we made something in Canada, affordable and worth buying. Sure we have some great audio gear, but that would be an insult as a gift. You wouldn't believe how hard it is to take a gift 'Made in Canada' to our friends in China. There isn't any !!!, maple syrup and ice wine.

I've built a lot of things, and inspected more. You wouldn't believe what contractors try to get away with in construction and that is all life safety related. Anything that is being built you need to stay on top off. Any distributor that thinks they can do this business over the phone or by email with a foreign company is nuts. I can even go nearly as far by saying any consumer who purchases from a foreign unknown is a few caps short of an amp

Cheers,
Ian

QUOTE (clint e. @ January 20, 2009 03:20 pm)

QUOTE (niklasthedolphin @ January 19, 2009 08:33 pm)

QUOTE (clint e. @ January 19, 2009 08:54 pm)

American gear, European gear...after all they are all made in China....and, High End is just a form of intelligent marketing....

I have no Chinese gear in my set-up.

"dolph"

Maybe no Chinese gear but definitly chinese parts.

Even the coveted Harley name has overseas parts.
'
Jim

I have some Chinese gear and i'm very content with them, to mention a few:

An Aria Mini, witch is a Chinese clone of the Sophia Baby tube amp.
A Yaqin tube buffer, similar to Grant buffer.
An integrate amp from Nad, some interesting gear from Behringer and a USB dac from Pro-Ject.

There are so many great sutff coming from China now...even some Mark Levinson...
If a product is well made and sounds good i don't care if it was made in China or Antartica.
Chinese are cloning everything like the Japanese have done 50 years ago and because of their genetics - like the Japanese - they are very good in detail and perfection witch is a good thing concerning audio.

QUOTE (clint e. @ January 21, 2009 04:14 pm)

Chinese are cloning everything like the Japanese have done 50 years ago and because of their genetics - like the Japanese - they are very good in detail and perfection witch is a good thing concerning audio.

While lots are cloning, there is also many in the Chinese audio industry that have been designing audio longer than most. Those are the ones we deal with.

btw, 4 awards last year now for our Chinese made products, from NA reviewers

Cheers,
Ian

My chinese DAC compared well with dingus's dominican republic DAC. I would certainly try other chinese made audio thingy's

QUOTE (Jim Eck @ January 20, 2009 04:09 pm)

[/QUOTE]
Maybe no Chinese gear but definitly chinese parts. [/QUOTE]
Even the coveted Harley name has overseas parts.
'
Jim

I have had a few Harley riders get upset when you bring up that fact.
Harley's are assembled here from 'mostly'American parts.
Its a world economy,most consumer goods are a mix and match of parts and sub assemblies.
I ride a Suzuki now but have owned a Sportster in the past.

QUOTE (Rat44 @ January 21, 2009 08:35 pm)

[QUOTE=Jim Eck,January 20, 2009 04:09 pm] [/QUOTE]
Maybe no Chinese gear but definitly chinese parts. [/QUOTE]
Even the coveted Harley name has overseas parts.
'
Jim

[/QUOTE]
I have had a few Harley riders get upset when you bring up that fact.
Harley's are assembled here from 'mostly'American parts.
Its a world economy,most consumer goods are a mix and match of parts and sub assemblies.
I ride a Suzuki now but have owned a Sportster in the past.

I ride a Yamaha Virago and a Harley Sportster. Overseas parts are a fact of life, it is where they are made.

Jim

Chinese product have been getting better and will still in the future be getting better.
This is about incorporating quality control in the production line.
Using designs made by the right people.
Making sure there's a aftermarket back up.

However......................................

Cars are produced in China that have safety issues that prevent them from import to EU.

Cars are being produced that are design clones of other western european cars.
These manufacturers can't be taken to court because of chinese law.

Scooters are produced and imported to EU (laws about safety are less strickt when it comes to scooters) that end their lives in the garage because of lack of spare parts, even though they are a ½ - 2 years old.

Kids toys are made consisting of poisoning products that we in EU have made laws against many years ago. These poisoning things are even used in new production lines.

Independent TV stations in EU have, each on their own, made documentarism showing how people, including children, are per se slave bound to a job.
Jobs where you work 16-20 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year.

Programmes showing how children are sold and bought for production lines.

Programmes showing how working invironments are putting lifes very much at stake.

Programmes showing that government does not make any interventions because they find the echonomic growth more important.

This is only the top of the iceberg and it for sure prevents me from buying chinese gear to the extend it's possible for me.

"dolph"

The Bad Apple and Tree parable again.

Ian, you have an uphill battle that IMO can be won!

With China's cost advantage, you should be able to OVER-spec parts for your products.

If you can sell "mil-spec" gear for much less than high-end consumer grade gear, your case would be compelling.

I own two Yaqin tube buffers that use a single tube and a Jolida phono preamp, I am content with these Chinese made products. Considering that many LCD flat panels are made in China, let alone other products, I am not sure the reason to ask about China made products. They seem to be getting pretty good these days. Even if they are counterfeited as well!

QUOTE (socal sam @ January 22, 2009 08:12 am)

we've already done that, read any of the reviews of our gear? Sound, build and parts quality is twice what is expected for half the price. Noticed in another thread you were looking for a CDP, but have no shops around you. Here's your opportunity to check out one of our products that will help the battle be won. With the 21 day in-home-audition, you have nothing to lose, except shipping if you decide to return it for any reason.

Cheers,
Ian

QUOTE (Grant Fidelity @ January 28, 2009 07:23 am)

QUOTE (socal sam @ January 22, 2009 08:12 am)

Ian:

I'll have a closer look at your products.

Sam.

And another GF review (A-534B 300B SET amp) just came out today from Positive Feedback:

"I found all of the Grant Fidelity equipment that I auditioned to be impressively well made, totally glitch-free in operation, and, above all, extremely musical and involving. These considerations alone would make it easy to recommend them very highly. When the reasonable price of these components is factored in, calling them remarkable bargains seems inadequate. It has been an absolute pleasure listening to them. Kent Johnson."

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue41/g...ledity_534b.htm

Kent reviewed our CD-327A 2 months ago:

"I am very impressed with this CD player. I like it a lot and would recommend auditioning it to anyone with a roughly $1000 budget who is seeking the absolute best sound quality he or she can find. It is going to be very expensive finding a CD player that clearly improves upon it. Kent Johnson."

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue40/g...elity_327cd.htm

Cheers,
Ian