I'm comparing my Concept 16.5 to a Sonics Associates badged Bryston 4B. Is comparing a Pacific Stereo house brand receiver to the well respected Bryston 4B power amp a fair fight?

The amp sections are both dual mono with the Concept sporting iron core and the Bryston toroidals. The Concept puts out 165 watts while the Bryston is good for around 250. The power difference is not a handicap as the difference in ultimate sound output is less than 3 dB.

My setup makes comparison switching a cinch. The speakers are two pairs of Yamaha NS-200M's. The CDP is a Luxman D-109 feeding both amps through an RCA switch box. The Bryston is being controlled by a Kenwood L-07C high-speed preamp. I put an Adcom speaker selector in-line to control the Bryston's power up bump.

Care to call a winner?

my initial gut reaction is that it will be close enough to call it a draw. step up the line with the source and speakers and a clear winner might emerge (though there may be too many intermediate devices in the signal path).

Unfortunately, the Bryston does not have a speaker selection switch so the power up and down bumps cannot be stopped unless a speaker selector is installed in line. Also, no protection relay. I'm thinking about running a variable output CDP and taking the L-07C off line. Until I get to know this example better, I'm being cautious.

I'm very surprised how close this comparo is. Some differences are starting to emerge. The Concept is noticeably faster with crisper top hat and deeper and tighter bass. The Bryston comes back with rich and full mids while the highs and lows are acceptable.

Your rusults so far are suprising to me.

I know the Concept is no slouch- but I thought the Bryston would still trounce the heck out of it.

I look forward to more from you on this.

One would think given Bryston's reputation as a company and Concept's origins as a house brand "budget" alternative to Marantz, Sansui, et al.

We have a winner!

To even the field as closely as possible, I uncoupled the 16.5 and fed both amps with the Kenwood L-07C preamp. Using an RCA switchbox, I'm able to switch amps instantaneously for the best possible A/B.

I have well recorded piano passages and I was listening for the brassy overlay and woody decay. The 16.5 did a credible job of bringing these nuances forward while the Bryston could do no more than reproduce a muffled hint. On another track, the Bryston could not resolve or bring forward the background instruments thus losing a significant portion of the composition. I had to strain to hear these details while in the 16.5, everything is accesible and enjoyable.

The 16.5 is the winner and by a wider margin than I thought after an initial listen. For us long time 16.5 owners, I won't say this is a surprise win. Bryston owners will have to take comfort in the excellent 20 year warranty and superb service department.

that is surprising, i would have thought the Bryston would have been more competitive. what are you going to do with it now?

I wonder if some of the musical nuances are being caught up in the switchbox? I believe that the cleanest path would produce the cleanest sound, in this instance, A/B, you couldnt do that,

Have you tried them completely separate, I know my reference material fairly well, I wonder if that might even it up a bit. or get better sound out of each unit.

elroy

It's on loan from a friend. He has moved on to something else...

The RCA switchbox was in line for both amps so the handicap, if any would been equal for both amps. The box itself is mechanical so there are no electronic components added to the signal path.

Interesting...Bryston as i remember has always great reputation concerning the low freqs. They are very well known for its bass "slap" and "slam" and for that matter is very often chosen as a low-frequency amplifier in a bi-amplified system.

Bryston power is unquestioned but I suspect the vertical attack and decay necessary for tight bass is not as good as the 16.5.

Maybe you have a better synergy between the Concept and the Yamaha NS-200M's....?!
IMO, with all the amount of current the Bryston delievers they always need a very dynamic speaker. Did you tried with another set of speakers?

IMO, the Bryston has the lowest rail voltage of all the contestants. The main filters are rated at only 63v whereas the Concept is 80v and the Yamaha PC2002M is 100v. While I do not know the exact rail voltage settings for each, it stands to reason that higher voltage caps would be specified for higher rail voltages. It is definitely the slowest sounding of all three. A speaker change will not improve this.

I'm certain we're not talking about the same amplifier, the Bryston B4. I'm saying this because i have a friend who has that power amp together with a set of sonus faber speakers and it is fast, clear and imo one of the best power amps that i'd listen.
Sometimes we need more than one or two days to truly judge all the pros and cons of an amplifier and contrary to what you think, speakers are sometimes the main key for an amplifier performance.