Of course there are exceptions

Completely agree that room treatment is a must if you want 'Reality'. By request, I removed from the GF site the part about not spending more than $8K (or the equivilent used/vintage) without doing treatment. I still have it up somewhere and tell people not to buy expensive cabling until they've treated their room.

Btw, best deal i've found on bass traps is the IKEA cylinder pillow. $10 each. Work great.

I've been working on 2 ways with 6" for the past year, 3 different models, have the bass sorted nicely on all, seems to be more difficult getting the tweeters to match up. All 1st order x-overs. My favourite woofer size has generally been 10" for home and studio use.

After years of listening directly to the the speakers, it's fun to want to hear them disapear into the soundstage.

Ok who's got the best closet system ?

which closet? shop or home?

So, from your inputs - great post, btw - am i right when i came to a conclusion that a three way or even a four way loudspeaker is the way to go?

Btw, i was a bass player for many years and my last bass rig - i still have it, i refoam it a few weeks ago - from Trace Elliot, and as you might see by the pics below it has two 10" and one 15" Cellestion bass drivers.
I find the combination between 10" and 15" really great. The 10's give punch and defenition and the 15", the bottom end and power the overall bass sound really needs.

i don't know. i use to build 2 ways with 10 inchers. they would rattle the windows. i'm still debating about it. don't get me wrong i love my epos.

the Large Advent uses this simple design and i am always impressed with its ability to deliver a satisfying low end.

i'm with Kelly on this one, its all in the execution.

My personal preference is to listen in the near to mid-field, so I like to run a big driver across as wide a range as possible and have a single tweeter to bolster up the HF response. That way you get a pretty amazing stereo image with natural detail and dynamics even if such a design can be a bit tonally 'challenged' at times.

I suppose my dream speaker would be the Zu Druid.

Multiway designs can work really well and generally handle more power but I have found you need to listen in the far field to get the best from them - close up you become very aware of the individual drivers efforts. Oh, and good ones are a lot more expensive, coz there are more drivers in a bigger cabinet. I guess that's why NS-10000's aren’t cheap!

BTW, nice Celestions. The 15" can really move some air, eh?

there are alot of parameters that make a speaker. you have vented or not. the size and shape. internal bracing. your xover points. how much they overlap. which inductors you use and caps. all these things can make a difference. even the internal wire.

I always swore by 12's for bass, my Legacy's have 2 10's and I quite using a sub when I hooked them up as it was excessive. They have one 10 firing out the front and the other firing out the back.

They also use a system thought up by there creator were they work against each other I think, I can look up the article if anyone is interested, to keep them tighter, I don't pretend to understand it I just like the sound.

Jim

I concur with you. I like a lot small speakers.
Maybe because of the fact that i never had a large listening room i find quite impossible to get low frequencies in small rooms (standig ways, wall reflactions).

I would be very interested in reading the article. Sounds like some variant of Isobaric loading.

Many years ago I acquired a pair of Linn Sara's. They used isobaric loading with each cabinet having two-piggybacked KEF drivers. They were absolute pigs to drive properly and I never really liked them much, but boy, they were popular at the time. Sold them for a healthy profit and have never missed them. But the isobaric principle seems sound and I have often wondered why it isn't more commonly used.

Anyone remember the late 80's Allison's AL-130 with the 'push-pull' woofer arrangement? The bass depth and clarity was excellent but back then I found the slightly recessed mid/hf performance a tad polite. Now those, I miss...

what about planar or ribbon tweeters, or even piezos. phase plugs and other things I know nothing about and don't pretend to

Ribbons can be impressive but the ones I have used (Mordaunt Short with Decca/Kelly ribbons and Celestion 5000's) 'beamed' the treble and sounded very dull off-axis.

I have found planar tweeters can work really well as they are usually low mass (like a ribbon) but have better dispersion. The Infinity EMIT was very good for a mass-market design, but my favourite is the Heil Air Motion Transformer. Not a true planar, I know - but you get a lot of the advantages of a planar and very high efficiency to boot.

I have not really tried any piezo-based designs.

i guess i'm going to have to get some books. i really don't know what a phase does.

There's a basic intro to phase in relation to wave propagation on Wiki: Phase

When it comes to 'phase plugs' on conventional speaker drivers the (generally bullet shaped) extension of the drivers pole piece is designed to smooth the drivers response and dispersion characteristics, especially at the high end of its operating range. It also removes the problem of air being 'trapped' under the dust cap and deforming the cone as it moves back & forth. Mind you, it leaves the air gap open to contamination by dust and other foreign matter.

In horn designs the phase plug is designed to prevent HF cancellation in the throat of the horn. There is an excellent summary Here

http://www.americansound.com/LegacyAudio.htm

Above is one link, I am still looking for the original article I had read, below is a link to Legacy's site, it changes frequently, there is quite bit of Bill Dudleston's theory's on bass and trebel reproduction.

From there site is some interesting reading under an Engineers perspective, some of what Bill is thinking when and why he designed his speakers the way he does.

Legacy's would fall under new speakers, I have the Classics and think they are wonderful, I did not and could not pay the original price. They are here in town where they build these, someday I need to go out there and have a look.

http://legacyaudio.com/index.php?option=co...id=17&Itemid=33

Jim