You guys ever talk to a "Mad Scientist" audiophile? I talked to one yesterday while selling a pair of speakers so I had to make with the talk. He knew his theory and was well read but I got the impression he had not heard enough gear to make the connection to the real world. OK, I applaud anyone going all out for SQ and this guy was trying to re-invent the wheel with home built digital amps, active crossovers, noise cancellers, and home built speakers. However, he insisted that he thought CD was best! I told him how lousy CD reproduction is and that you can see it on a scope. AND, you can hear it comparing vinyl to CD. Anyways, I couldn't exactly kick the guy out of the house as he was a paying customer. The things I do to turn a buck...

The customer is always right.

with so many variables involved, i think this comes down to ones personal preference and i dont see any end to the debate as to which is "better".

there is a wide range of different pressings and masterings between the two formats so what do you use as a benchmark? i've heard vinyl that was dull and lifeless and a different lp of the same album is dramatically more dynamic and lifelike - on the same system. to my ear, cd's are more consistent from cd to cd, but there are still differences in mastering and the production processes to account for.

I concur with dingus.

I'm a vinyl fan, but with nowadays digital technology's evolution you can have a great cd sound even with an affordable cdp.

Quality of recording and pressing makes a huge difference. I would say that generally, good sounding vinyl doesn't sound as good when digitally re-mastered. Comments?

Imo it all depends of the preamp, dac's soundcard and the software you use to convert vinyl to digital. I had convert a few years ago some lps and old tapes to cds and some of them even sound better than the original analogue format.

Of course, there's nothing we as consumers can do to put back the dynamic range that was compressed out in the mastering process.

Some early CDs were badly mastered but by the mid to late 80s most recordings sounded awesome. It was just a matter of learning to record digitally. I regard this period as the zenith in music recording. Since then it has all been downhill.

And, it's ironic because the CD format allowed greater dynamic range than ever before, but commercial reasons drive producers to use only a small portion of its capability.

I wonder why Japanese pressings of cd's sound better. I thought the mastering process is applied through all regions?!

Part of the reason newer recordings and especially stuff for the masses sound so bad is that mixers mix for the lowest common denominator, i.e. crappy boomboxes, car stereos, and anything BOSE. I suspect Japanese are not proud of crappy gear...

ultimately digital has more potential than vinyl in term of resolution and dynamic range, but that doesnt automatically translate to better sound. execution is everything no matter what format is used.

That's sort of true. In theory, all of the audio spectrum makes it to CD without the mechanical limitations of turn tables. In fact, the RIAA spectrum seems rather limited but manages to preserve the transients that get lost in the DAC process. I touched on the square wave performance of CDP's in another thread and got some great replies regarding the Nyquist theorem. This would appear to be the basic limitation of 16 bit recordings.

I saw something on tv about digital recording and the folks talking about recording in digital was that there are very very close tolerances in the dynamic ranges that they record in. and if they get out of that range, even by a little, it will sound bad.

and it did take them a while to get it just right as clint said. I think they have done a great job with the ones and zeros.

elroy

I couldn't disagree more. I have a number of CD's that are remastered versions of well engineered LP's, and each and every CD sounds better than the record.

I have a very old record, a Mercury Living Presence LP called, "Fiesta in Hi-Fi" which was a superbly mastered 60's-vintage recording. I purchased a CD remake of it, which did a masterful job of reducing the very loud tape hiss, and dramatically imrpoving just about every other characteristic of the original recording. The same is true of another Mercury recording, "Balalaika Favorites," the CD version of which is on the list of The Absolute Sound's "must-have" CD's.

When the recording engineers choose to use the digital medium to remaster old recordings. many noticeable benefits can occur. A mere "transfer" of one to the other, with little care on the part of the engineers, results in the harsh and steely sound of so many early CD's.

As a lover of classical music, most of my collection of CD's is of that sort (though I still like most other musical formats), and most of those are on the Telarc label. I have to state categorically that NO record I've ever owned comes even remotely close to the sound of some of the better Telarc recordings.

And now, there's SACD, which takes digital recording to an all new level. On a well mastered hybrid SACD, and on a decent system, comparing the two layers always results with the SACD layer wiping the floor with the CD layer in terms of transparency, "air," and dynamics.

I have a different opinion. I also have a number of cd's that are digitally remastered versions from good lp's and only a very few of them are inddeed better than the original lp.
More, i only give credit to a cd remaster if it has some of band members or some of the old engineers/producers involved in that digitally remaster.

Some good examples : Live at Leeds by the Who and White Album by the Beatles.

Some Bad examples : Darkness On The Edge of Town by Bruce Springsteen and Bringing It All Back Home by Dylan.

Nevertheless, "the loundness war" comes to remasters not only in cd's but also on vinyl!!! Vinyls are now cut so loud that it's a miracle that the needle can stay in the groove....

The mere fact that you have digitally-remastered CD's that sound better than the original LP indicates that digital remastering can, and indeed does, work. That you have others that don't sound very good only illustrates that it doesn't work all the time, for a variety of reasons (poor engineering, sloppy transfer, etc.). In those instances it's not the medium that's at fault, but those working within it.

Touché.