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ToTo Man- 01-17-2008
Howdy! soundt/action-smiley-065.gif

Admittedly, I don't know as much about vinyl as I should. It's quite difficult to know how a vinyl rig *should* sound like, because I haven't been able to compare it to anyone elses.

Over Christmas, I was spinning a Royal Choral Society Christmas Carol LP circa 1955. Really good quality heavy pressing, and in remarkably good condition. What I noticed however was during the fleeting loud passages, there was considerable distortion, and I'm trying to work out exactly what was causing it. I've identified that it might be any one of the following causes: -

Poor mastering of the recording in the first place.
Worn out record grooves due to improper playing.
Vertical stylus tracking force
Vertical stylus tracking angle
Stylus anti-skate force.

Can someone please explain which is most likely to be the cause of distortion of loud passages, and how to go about identifying if this is the actual cause?
Do different LPs require different tracking settings to get the most from them?

PS - I have a -*test*-('") calibration LP somewhere, but no detailed instructions, so I don't really know how to use it! biggrin.gif

My TT is a Denon DP-45F, fitted with an Audio Technica AT440ML, vertical tracking force set to 1.25g (recommendation is 0.8g - 1.6g), antiskate set to 1.25g, and arm level set to parallel with LP.

clint e.- 01-17-2008
For every vinyl lover, this is a must read. smile.gif

From Sound Thinking's Links page, look for :

“Everything you always wanted to know about phono replay but were afraid to ask... ”

http://soundt.18.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=912&st=15

emaidel- 01-17-2008
My guess is that the record's grooves are worn, especially considering its age. If you experience the same kind of distortion on newer LP's, then you might be tracking at too light a force. If your stylus were worn, everything would sound lousy, not just loud passages. biggrin.gif

ToTo Man- 01-17-2008
Thanks Alvaro, - interesting reading. I have a -*test*-('") record with uncut grooves to adjust antiskate, but the article advises not to use an uncut record to adjust antiskate. So, do you just adjust antiskate by ear? Or should I get myself an oscilliscope? biggrin.gif

ToTo Man- 01-17-2008
QUOTE (emaidel @ January 17, 2008 05:26 am)
If your stylus were worn, everything would sound lousy, not just loud passages. biggrin.gif

No problem of that, - I've had my stylus about 18 months now and its lucky if its had 18 hours of play! biggrin.gif

clint e.- 01-17-2008
QUOTE (ToTo Man @ January 17, 2008 03:14 pm)
Thanks Alvaro, - interesting reading.  I have a -*test*-('") record with uncut grooves to adjust antiskate, but the article advises not to use an uncut record to adjust antiskate.  So, do you just adjust antiskate by ear? Or should I get myself an oscilliscope?  biggrin.gif

You can adjust it by ear. wink.gif I'm not jocking. smile.gif
I have an old -*test*-('") record from Hi_Fi News smile.gif and you can make it by ear like i do.

Using the anti-skating mechanism provided on your tonearm, adjust the amount of anti-skate until your -*test*-('") record produce a clean, undistorted signal in both channels. Buzzing in the right channel indicates that more anti-skating force is required, whereas buzzing in the left channel indicates that less anti-skating force is required. wink.gif

http://www.garage-a-records.com/products.p...32e2a83a0323fb0

hifi_nut- 01-17-2008
I believe Emaidel got it spot on. Ain´t no big surprise, Ed has been involved with cartridges most of his professional life.

VTF ( Vertical Tracking Force ) should be set to the highest recommended value. It won´t damage your records.

As for anti-skating it really is quite easy to detect, even without a -*test*-('") record. Due to the arms inertia, without anti-skating you´ll get one channel sounding evr so slightly louder than the other.


ToTo Man- 01-18-2008
Ok, I found the instruction sheet for that LP, so I gave it a try today.

I forgot that on my Denon TT, there is no separate anti-skate adjustment. The vertical tracking force and anti-skate are controlled by the same dial.

Anyway, I spun the LP, lowering the stylus into the uncut anti-skate band. As soon as the stylus hit the vinyl it drifted towards the centre a little bit but after 1 second it stopped and stayed in the same place in the vinyl. Not sure what this indicates. Maybe that the Denon anti-skate takes a little while to take effect?

Next I did the tracking -*test*-('") on the same LP. 4 tracks specially cut, each containing chimes from a triangle, so lots of HF energy. 2nd track has 10 times more energy than 1st, 3rd has 10 times more energy than 2nd, and 4th has 10 times more energy than 3rd. According to the instructions, ability to track on the 3rd track is the goal for true high fidelity, and that they would very rarely expect any stylus to track on the 4th track. VTF set to 1.25g, my stylus tracked all tracks great, couldn't notice any distortion whatsoever. The 4th track sounded awesome, extremely crisp and clear. For interest sake I also repeated -*test*-('")s with VTF set to 1g and 1.5g, and it sounded great on both settings. I was kind of surprised that it handled the 4th track so easily, but then again the AT440ML is famous for its trackability. It could also be because the Test LP is 30yrs old, and modern cartridges perhaps are better at passing these -*test*-('")s than older ones.

Both channels appear to have the same volume, so I guess the combined VTF/antiskate setting is pretty accurate at what it does. The fun continues...........

hifi_nut- 01-18-2008
So it seems your Royal Choral Society Christmas Carol LP has suffered some damage to the grooves.

Jorge

ToTo Man- 01-19-2008
QUOTE (hifi_nut @ January 18, 2008 05:08 pm)
So it seems your Royal Choral Society Christmas Carol LP has suffered some damage to the grooves.

Jorge

It would appear so, Jorge. Perhaps not that surprising when you consider that quite a lot of people who have a vinyl rig don't know the first thing about them and probably use $2 conical styluses set to 5g tracking force, etc...... (a bit like me before my online forum days! rolleyes.gif ).........

PS - I recently bought two Toto LPs. Same LP, but from different sources. One from German eBay, the other from German Amazon. Both advertised as new, although only one was sealed. Turns out that both of them have scratches and scuffs all over the playing surface, and grease marks around the outer rim. It's as if the person in the production plant had a game of frisbee with them while eating a greasy hamburger! soundt/pirate.gif Remind me why vinyl is so appealing??!!! biggrin.gif

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