OK, I'm an electronics dummy. I understand the basic things, but get lost in the technical discussions. I have a question that might be asked by a lot of people:

I have my cheapo Sony BPC amp in my forklift system that puts out 20wpc. I recently replaced it with a Pioneer SX737, rated at 35wpc. (I like the Sony better, but that's another thread.) In the house, I have a Sansui AU717 rated at 80wpc, and a Sansui AU719, rated at 85wpc. The only speakers I have that have seen all four of the amps are my Electro-Voice/Yamaha stadium speaker combo. All of these systems can make your ears hurt somewhere between 10:00 and 12:00 on the good ol' k-nob, so other than powering a bunch more speakers at the same time, or trying to hurt your neighbors, what is the advantage of having 200 wpc as opposed to 50?? Or is it the same as asking why have 500 horsepower when 40 will get you going 55mph?
Does the higher wattage help the low volume, too?

Thanks

in my completely non-technical experience it involves not only the abilities of the amp, but also the demands that a speaker puts on said amp. some speakers perform well with relatively small amounts of power, while other speakers will not perform well without providing them with large amounts of power.

well, it certainly can, but i think depends more on the quality of those watts. i'll take 50wpc of quality power over 200wpc of average quality power any day.

As Dingus stated, you need quality watts, another reason for higher watt amps is headroom, the amp needs to have extra watts, more than required so as not to peak out and clip, specifically on the lows and highs.

Your Klipsch are an excellent example of efficient speakers, they do not require a great deal of power to sound really good. Maggies and other types are power hungry, my Legacy's are 4 ohm and power hungry, I have played them with lesser wattage amps with good results currently an 80 watt Hafler, but when I was able to drive them with higher wattage amps, in particular class A amps, the bass is much deeper, well hard to really describe maybe fuller is a better word, the chest thump is more pronounced, I think you get the idea.

Jim

Great topic.

Imo, at low levels power doesn't matter much, but there are so many factors concerning amp/speaker combinations, output power included of course, but also frequency response, total harmonic distortion, clipping, SPL, damping factors, etc... I presume this will be a long and fan topic....

Also, i concur with Scott "on the quality of those watts".

I diagree. I thing the less you have to push an amp to get the sound you want therefore the less it works. even at lower wattage you will have a clearer sound. I'm talking about a good amp and true watts.
The more you work an amp the higher distortion level.
It's like Clint said though there are alot of paramaters you have to include. Thus systym matching is one thing to consider.

the way i'm reading everyones responses, it looks to me like we all in agreement here.

OK, but let's pare it down to basics......

If I take two amps from the same manufacturer and series (Pioneer, for eample), what would be the advantage of having a 200 wpc XX80 series over an X80 rated at 50 watts?

I know at higher listening levels there would be a substantial gain, but what about at medium and lower levels?

assuming that the amps deliver power of equal quality, the differences at low volume is probably negligible. it becomes even more negligible as the sensitivity of your speakers increase.

there can be an odd kind of inverse paradigm. i use higher power amps with lower sensitivity speakers in order to get a sound that is characterized by smoothness and delicacy, while others would use lower power amps with higher sensitivity speakers to get a sound characterized by dynamics and impact. different strokes for different folks.

to this point the topic has been in the context of ss gear, its a whole 'nother world with tube amplification.

I understand what you are saying.

The speakers in my warehouse sound like @$$ to me at low volume because that's not what they were made for. For outside in the warehouse, they're fine though. But, crank up the volume, and they sound "better".

and they might also sound better at lower volumes with more power, but in my experience this applies more towards speakers of a lower sensitivity.

Well the main advantage between a 200 wpc and 50wpc, imo is a better and bigger power suplly which is especially important that adequate short-term current reserves be available for when musical peaks demand that large currents be delivered to the loudspeaker. Power supplies with larger power transformers and larger amounts of filter capacitance will help an amplifier sound better. Also more power prevent/avoid amp cllipping, not at low volume levels, but in reality, amps clip more often than we think, especially on well-recorded music that has high dynamic range, and especially when driving speakers with efficiencies in the low to mid 80's.

The average level is what drives us out of the room, while it is the peak level that impresses us with effortless dynamics.

Btw, i concur with Scott when he says, and i quote:
"assuming that the amps deliver power of equal quality, the differences at low volume is probably negligible. it becomes even more negligible as the sensitivity of your speakers increase.

there can be an odd kind of inverse paradigm. i use higher power amps with lower sensitivity speakers in order to get a sound that is characterized by smoothness and delicacy, while others would use lower power amps with higher sensitivity speakers to get a sound characterized by dynamics and impact. different strokes for different folks."

That actually makes sense to me..................

I have read several posts on a number of audio sites, in which the posters praised the sonic virtues of low-powered receivers. I have owned 100-watt power amps which sounded good, but am currently using a single-ended tube amp which [so I am told] puts out ten watts max, and it sounds great. A fifty-watt solid-state amp I used to own was a POS. I also once heard a solid state mono amp which was the size of a window air conditioner [700 - 800 watts] which really did sound good, and that may have had a lot to do with the low distortion - it was not measured in percent, but in parts per million! I must conclude that enough watts is enough, and other factors are far more important - also, that high watt numbers are most important for impressing people who are not in the know.

Laz

This discussion points to one of the things that makes this hobby so much fun.
The question was asked about the technical ramifications of power, but it circles back around to your subjective take on what your ear tells you.

I plugged along for a coupla decades with a Technics SU-8077 integrated amp,
which I think degraded over time. My system usually sounded "okay." I didn't hate it, and I never thought it was exceptional.

It's amazing how varied the output is for amps rated at any given wpc.
I have a little low-profile 40wpc Akai that will drive 4 ohms, and it cranks out a lot of sound.

I've never had a superhighquality low-power amp and from my perspective comparing tubes to SS is like comparing tennis to racquetball. Both involve swinging a racquet at a ball.

I'm a big believer in applying more power to the equation.
My system didn't start to sound really good until I picked up a Marantz TA-100.
It's a ghastly design - black plastic, a receiver designed to look like it has a separate tuner, SLIDERS rather than knobs. And it delivers a true 100wpc at 8ohms, and sounds terrific.
Then I went to the Hafler p3000, with 150wpc. My Klipsch KG3.5 are rated at 65watts, and I don't turn it past 9 o'clock when I use them, but the sound is quite good, and sometimes exceptional. The Polks I'm running now take a lot more power, and tho they sound good at a range of volumes, they sound better with more power. And as several people pointed out, some speakers simply won't perform at low power input.

My system didn't start sounding good until I had higher-wattage amps.

As my post implied [or at least, I think it did] a system can work well with low or hight power amps, and I'm guessing that, your experience is dependent on your speakers. It all has to sing together. BTW, is that Technics amp you mentioned one of the "New Class-A" series? I also find it interesting that you like an Akai amp - I don't see them getting much respect. You see, I have a low-powered MCS amp that I really like, and when does MCS get respect??

Laz