An experiment in Tweaking, Or how to freeze your CD's butt off

OK since the guys here have more common sense then another place I shall only mention by it's initials. (AA TWEAKERS FORUM)

I'm going to put this here as well as once it is done post it to AA.

It was and is proposed by some that if you freeze treat a CD it will sound better. I made the mistake of letting myself get sucked into this debate on the afor mentioned AA tweakers forum.

And after being told in so many words to try it or shut up I figured I would try it. (I have ever so much trouble shutting up when I enjoy the fight)

SO here is the plan of procedure:

1. I picked to very different CD's one I know extremely well the other I only have listened to a few times but enjoy they are very different kinds of music. One is a very new CD the other dates from the late 80's.

2. The CD's
Steve Miller "Fly Like an Eagle" & Diana Krall "When I Look in Your Eyes"

3. I made two copies of each using my Computer I made the copies on MAXELL CD-R MUSIC Golg 80min CD's

4. One copy of each is labeled Frozen the other RAW Both copies are then wrapped in a new clean paper towel. This is then placed in a sealed ziplock baggie with the air sucked out.

5. The copies marked Frozen are then put into the top of my fridge for 12 hours to slow cool to approx 38-40 degrees. Then they will be placed in my stand alone freezer which sits at approx. They will be at that temp for approx. 12 hours

6. The CD's labeled as RAW are also wrapped in a new paper towel and put in a sealed Baggie with the air sucked out. These are control copies are now placed on the same shelf near my stereo I keep all my CD's

7. I'm going to conduct the first test using my Pioneer PD-M552 changer since I can out both the RAW and Frozen CD's in a 6 disk magazine at the same time and sitting at my sweet spot I can using the remote switch very quickly from one to the other.

After the A/B test in the Pioneer is done including having my wife and one of the neighbor kids with nice young ears give the choices a listen I will step up the quality of the playback by switching to my Cambridge Audio 540D player. Quick switching will not be possible but I feel I should give the better player a chance to pull any subtle differences out that possibly the older Pioneer wouldn't be able to.

I will list all results for who ever to read for themselves.

I have and will not tell my wife a thing about what I am doing until she is listening to the choices same with the Neighbor kid.

I know I will be hamstrung in my conclusions by having a total lack of understanding of flowery Audio speak but I will try my best.

If anyone here see's anything I should change about my plan of procedure please feel free to post your comments here..

And Mark B if you make it down on the 29th I will be glad to run them through for you again.

Maybe you'll have some good results on freezing cds.
Mainly because you're will change its resonant characteristics by reducing the molecular bonds that holds the material together. If it has any implications sound wise, i really don't know...but, imho i think it's possible. You've got to hear to believe...
I'll be waiting for the results. Good Luck.

Sorry I hit the send button before I put in the Freezer temp which sits right around -2F

OK an update. Due to having other things much more important to think about the CD's ended up in the fridge at 38F degrees for about 18 hours and in the Freezer for about 15 at -2F. They are currently laying on the same shelf as the RAW copies returning to room temp approx 72F later tonight once the wife is home and we are sitting down to listen to music tonight I will do the first listening test.

I´m normally very skeptical about things like cryo-treatments on CD´s, cables and the like, but coming from you, Mark, I´ll take this very, very seriously.

If I may make a suggestion, would it be possible for you to run a blind listening test rather than an A-B comparison? Knowing what you are listening to may actually influence your judgment either way.

Jorge

YES in fact I was thinking of having the wife put the CD's into which ever carrier in the magazine she wanted so I wouldn't know which was which. BUT since I doubt one will sound better then the other only different I will need to hear that there is a difference.

BUT I can set it up so it is a blind test first. GOOD Idea.

And I'm trying to be open minded about this so called Tweak ever though I think the whole idea should be bullshit.

LOL

Consider me a sceptic.

As for the suggestion that a blind listening test be done, I thought that was why you were having your wife and the neighbor boy do the listening. I assume you're not telling them which is which.

SO here for your enjoyment is what I did what I did it with and what I found out after experiencing this "tweak"

MY system:

Pioneer SA-9100 amp TOTL in 1973 Completely restored and capped including an upgrade to the power supply. Said to be a "warm sounding SS amp"

Pioneer SG-50(M) Spectrum Analyzer and EQ. Used to adjust my system to have as close as a flat response as possible within the room I listen in.

Pioneer PD-M-552 CDP

Pioneer HPM-100 speakers properly tuned into the room (see SG-50(M) above)

DIY MINI 8 50 ohm Coax based interconnects and Speaker cables.

Monster Products HTS3500 MKII Power filter

The room is approx 13 X 23 with the speaker triangle 9.5' apart by 17' from the listening position grill to ear.


THE PLAN

SO here is the plan of procedure:

I picked two very different CD's one I know extremely well the other I only have listened to a few times but enjoy they are very different kinds of music. One is a very new CD the other dates from the late 80's.

The CD's Steve Miller "Fly Like an Eagle" & Diana Krall "When I Look in Your Eyes"

I made two copies of each using my Computer I made the copies on MAXELL CD-R MUSIC Gold 80min CD's

One copy of each is labeled Frozen the other RAW. Both copies were then wrapped in a new clean paper towel. This was then placed in a sealed ziplock baggie with the air sucked out.

The copies marked Frozen were then put into the top of my fridge for 18+ hours to slow cool to approx 38-40F degrees. Then they were placed in my stand alone freezer which sits at approx.-2F They were at that temp for approx. 17 hours.

The CD's labeled as RAW The control copies were placed on the same shelf near my stereo I keep all my CD's.

At the end of the freezing period I took the CD's out of the freezer placed them still in the baggies on the shelf with the RAW labeled CD's allowed them to warm up slowly to room temp for about 2 hours.

For the first test I selected a 6 disk mag for my PD-M552 my Pioneer PD-M552 changer. I then put the CD's in the magazine.

I then warmed up the system for a few minutes listening to FM.

Then I started to while sitting at the sweet spot switch back and forth from one copy to the other trying my damnest to hear something different between the two copies.

I then switched to my Koss 4AAA Pro headphones listening intently to the lead in to a nu8mber of songs. Repeatedly listening to the 10sec "SPACE INTRO" on Fly Like an Eagle.

I listened to complete Diana Krall songs before switching to the other copy as well as switching every couple seconds during songs.

I then took the Steve Miller CD's into my office system that has again a Pioneer SA-9100 amp (But in original unmodified condition) and uses a Samsung HD850 upsampling DVD player as it's Digital front end. listening on both Pioneer HPM-60 speakers and Koss head phones.


I then switched back and forth on a number of tracks not listened to earlier on the main system. Switching to the Krall CD I did the same.

During all this time at no time not once did I hear anything that even hinted at a difference between the two copies. They were as far as I can tell 100% identical.

ABSOLUTELY with no doubt in my mind that at no time did I hear an improvement with either choice of CD.

SO for me in my limited experience this Tweak is not something I will continue to pursue.



I am now waiting for the wife to come home so I can try her ears out.

I'll post her findings as a follow up. I have a feeling I know what she will say.

You might not hear the difference because of the veil of crud across your system caused by the non audio grade power cords that Pioneer used on that gear.

thanks for walking point on this one Mark, saves me some trouble. btw, hows the spark plug IC project coming along?

Mark,

I´m sure the guys over at AA will tell you it takes a 10K CDP to show the differences...

Thanks for a great write up.

Oh, yes, I never intended to carry out this test for myself, but it´s good to know someone with good sense carried it out for you.

Jorge

Scott sadly I have been working a little to much the last couple weels to do much of anything.

Mark B. You crack me up.

The guys over on AA are actually giving me Kudo's for the experiment. They have offered to refreeze the CD's with Liquid Nitrogen, And suggest that I have any number of people listen as they might be able to hear a difference I can't.

unbelievably no one so far as made a hit on my system. I thought for sure the lowly Pioneer CDP would take a big hit.


In any case I'll keep the disks and when ever a new pair of ears shows up I can easily play them..

I thought I heard it all till I checked the TNT audio forum about putting old vinyl on top of your CDP to make the CDs sound warm, vanity has no bound.

Thanks for the tip Arup!

I´m going to place my Thorens TT on top of my Sony CDP right now.

Jorge