Chinese Audio Product's. The jury is still out!

I have to say I'm still not sure about Chinese made audio products, simply because I've never had any luck with them. My adventure started out buying what was considered a very good tube headphone amplifier. After playing it for one hour or so it began to buzz in both channels. It took me nine weeks to actually get my $500.00 back. Then I bought a tuner that was dead out of the box. They at least returned my money fast. Now after hearing all the hype, and reading all the reviews I bought an Emotiva RSP-2. The first one had a problem with a sticky volume control when using the remote, and a terrible phono stage hiss. My 37 year old Crown IC-150 was many times quieter. Got the replacement the other day, and everything works fine, but the center indents on the bass, and treble are off center and shifted noticeably towards the right. The Emotiva logo silk screening is terribly bad. The logo looks like something on a pirates flag all incomplete. Neither of these issues are worth sending it back for, but very aggravating to look at. Just cheapens the whole unit, and makes it look like a high end want to be! That's to bad because it is an excellent sounding preamp. I have to wonder if these short comings are worth the money saved. I called Jennifer at Emotiva, and asked her to see if Lonnie had a name plate I could put over the logo. I haven't heard back yet. This was Friday morning. I own a business, and if one of my customers were calling about an issue on a replacement unit, I'd be all over it. So really I see nothing outstanding about their customer service either. Sure they replaced it in 2 days, but I'd expect nothing less. I'm not sure I'd do it again. Just being honest here.

I own 4 chinese intergrated pwr. amps , 1 phono amp, 1 hybred amp, and 2 cdp. The only problem i had was tubes not lasting long. Mine are built like tanks and the sound is awesome. My Shanling cdp sounds just unbelievable.
I fhink you got screwed. I don't like the tubes and will change to others as they go.
Larry

American gear, European gear...after all they are all made in China....and, High End is just a form of intelligent marketing....

I have no Chinese gear in my set-up.

"dolph"

I heard a nasty rumor that the latest MC275 Series V is made in China. That is hard to believe. However, the Mcintosh branded output tubes are Russian and cost $150 each when you can get a marginally better Sov Tec for $30.

Ever browse the tubes in A-gon? Makes me wonder how many of the esoteric cottage brands are actually Chinese??

The only Chinese gear I have is a Marantz CD player.
Keeping my fingers crossed.
It is getting harder to get away from Chinese made stuff here in the US.
The Europeans have it a little better since they make some items themselves.
From what I have seen the brands we think are American are not Made here anymore.
I have not seen a made in Japan label in a while either.

The Chinese make audio gear as good as anybody, there is always vintage to keep you going Also the Chinese have already started to sub out to other countries, I can see it all now, 'the good stuff from China' in say 10 years with fondness, just like the world has always worked. Remember when all Japanese stuff was Junk? I do and many from my generation still think so. Old Europeans still thing American stuff is junk.

Made in Europe, then the USA, then Japan, then Korea, then Taiwan, then China, now Yakistan (or whatever). Might have missed a few, but you should get the point. Each country creates a management middle class and then subs it out to the next growing insudtrial country that can build it for less cost. We called it the industrial age.

Cheers,
Ian

That would be a nasty rumour, seeing that McIntosh state they build it in their factory. Shuguang can easily build it, we've worked with them for a while now and they have built a lot of Jolida. That would suck too, McIntosh is America to me, as much as Harley Davidson.

Could be their getting parts from China, that's pretty normal out there now, where Made In .... only requires 15% of the effort. Some think putting it in the packaging box is 15%

As far as the Russian tubes go, they have a much higher failure rate then our Shuguang tubes, closer to 10% on large Russian tubes, and we are still counting on the smaller Russian tubes. A tube should fail with 90 days in the customers hands with an average of 4 hours a day use. If it is going to fail prematurely, or it should last it's life with the very rare occasional Tube God sacrifice.

Also seems to be that some tube type like shipping more than others.

Cheers,
Ian

I suppose if the U.S. brand overseers were keeping a close eye on quality control, making sure they do not stray from the original spec, I would give a Chinese tube product a try. However, there are so many horror stories about clandestine quality shortcuts that I remain VERY skeptical. For example, the melamine milk problem was profit driven with no regard for who got injured. Unless a U.S. representative was on-site to ensure all the parts are as designed and spec'ed, I will have a tough time accepting their product.

This post has been edited by socal sam on January 20, 2009 12:10 am

That would be a nasty rumour, seeing that McIntosh state they build it in their factory. Shuguang can easily build it, we've worked with them for a while now and they have built a lot of Jolida. That would suck too, McIntosh is America to me, as much as Harley Davidson.

Could be their getting parts from China, that's pretty normal out there now, where Made In .... only requires 15% of the effort. Some think putting it in the packaging box is 15%

As far as the Russian tubes go, they have a much higher failure rate then our Shuguang tubes, closer to 10% on large Russian tubes, and we are still counting on the smaller Russian tubes. A tube should fail with 90 days in the customers hands with an average of 4 hours a day use. If it is going to fail prematurely, or it should last it's life with the very rare occasional Tube God sacrifice.

Also seems to be that some tube type like shipping more than others.

Cheers,
Ian

Thanks for the reply Ian. I'm looking into this because I bought a MC275V thinking it was NOT Chinese and was American. I'm inquiring about the country of origin elsewhere. I sure hope the content of this Mcintosh is 100% American.

However, I suspect otherwise. I'm already slightly dissappointed that Mc specs Russian tubes. Why spec a Russian tube and brand it Mcintosh and then sell it for $150 each when you can get a Russian Sov Tec or Gold Lion for $30?

Here's a follow up: They have been very nice about this situation. Lonnie and Dann have shown that Emotiva will stand strong behind their product.

Ya, the real amazing part is they actually gave me three options.

1. A full money back refund.
2. Shipping out a new replacement.
3. re-adjusting the price I paid for the unit.

I did not expect the last one. I couldn't bring myself to accept the price cut as the unit is already well worth the price their asking for it, unlike so many things you buy today.
That last offer was a deal changer for me. It showed me that they really are willing to bend over backwards to satisfy a customer. A solid company with very smart business men.

That is good customer service. I was checking out the emotivalounge discussion groups and it looks like they are trying to create word of mouth. However, it's the product that counts and you've had a few too many failures, IMO. I would have a tough time trusting one on my precious speakers.

This post has been edited by socal sam on January 20, 2009 06:45 am

I'd personally go for the 3rd option, as it simplifies things for everyone and money isn't wasted on shipping things around.

They are abviously a good company to deal with to give you the options to maintain a good relationship with you the customer.

Cheers,
Ian

That would be a nasty rumour, seeing that McIntosh state they build it in their factory. Shuguang can easily build it, we've worked with them for a while now and they have built a lot of Jolida. That would suck too, McIntosh is America to me, as much as Harley Davidson.

Could be their getting parts from China, that's pretty normal out there now, where Made In .... only requires 15% of the effort. Some think putting it in the packaging box is 15%

As far as the Russian tubes go, they have a much higher failure rate then our Shuguang tubes, closer to 10% on large Russian tubes, and we are still counting on the smaller Russian tubes. A tube should fail with 90 days in the customers hands with an average of 4 hours a day use. If it is going to fail prematurely, or it should last it's life with the very rare occasional Tube God sacrifice.

Also seems to be that some tube type like shipping more than others.

Cheers,
Ian

Thanks for the reply Ian. I'm looking into this because I bought a MC275V thinking it was NOT Chinese and was American. I'm inquiring about the country of origin elsewhere. I sure hope the content of this Mcintosh is 100% American.

However, I suspect otherwise. I'm already slightly dissappointed that Mc specs Russian tubes. Why spec a Russian tube and brand it Mcintosh and then sell it for $150 each when you can get a Russian Sov Tec or Gold Lion for $30?

Please keep us informed on what you find out about your amp being made in China.

Rebranding tubes has been going on forever. There is some things that do effect the price, but yes that seems quite steep and I expect McIntosh know this but do provide the tubes for their more typical customers, who only want a McIntosh and don't go online to research.

The tubes you get from eBay, etc are usually the seconds or thirds that do not pass the the various degrees of matching (internal matching) and pairs match, or quality testing. McIntosh is likely paying a large premium for tubes to their exact spec. and then these tubes enter their distribution chain where mark-ups are the norm.

Our EH tubes for RITA or more expensive too than the online tubes, because they have to be perfectly matched in Quads for RITA.

btw, we've sold many hundreds of tube components, might even be getting close to 1,000. We work with very good Chinese Manufacture's face to face and have our own quality control methods in place. We have zero failures ( acouple of caps have popped) of gear or I'm sure you would have heard about it by now for some of the fighting I do up in Canada online.

Please don't put all Chinese products into the same category (your other post), or I may have to bring up things like the Ford Pinto or the Pharmaceutical industry in Canada or the US or Europe.

The person responible for that milk fiasco has likely already been excecuted, in our part of the world he would likely be promoted

Cheers,
Ian

I have no Chinese gear in my set-up.

"dolph"

Maybe no Chinese gear but definitly chinese parts.