Jitter

There is always a lot of chat about the audibility of jitter.
Please may somebody tell me or describe what it sounds like?

I've asked that same question before either here, or at another audio website, or both. And I never got an answer.

The closest thing to an answer came when others agreed with my own observation that listening to a CD player (or CD player/DAC combo) with less jitter than another unit sounded a bit less harsh and had a wider and deeper soundstage. I know what jitter looks like, but still don't know what it sounds like. Maybe someone will be able to provide a better answer.

i've been wondering about that myself...

Nature of jitter is comparable with the analog terms of somewhere in between out of phase & Wow and Flutter.

However, it does not sound the same.

An obvious sign of jitter being there is the sound of clicks in the signal.

But even without these clicks, jitter can be present and making the sound further more artificial.
The less jitter the more the signal will aproach that of the analog equivalent with a well defined and airy top and tight and deep bass with attack.

Now when Wow & Flutter was changing all the signal in one time when a speed change was present, jitter are staggering or displacing only parts or single parameters of the whole signal.

For the human hearing, Wow & Flutter are easier to accept.

Jitter will, to an extend, be corrected in CD players.
But the correction will be no better in a CD player than when you try to correct colour-, contrast-, hue-, saturation-, noise- faults or pixel exchanging individual in a photo.

There does not exist a simplified answer to how jitter sounds.

Closest lead of examples are that instruments start sounding less like they should, you will loose the sound of the harpix on the violin bow, soundstage is getting muddy, the music will be disguised etc. etc.

"dolph"

ah. thanks, niklas.

I know exactly what jitter is - in simple terms, jitter is a modulation of the D/A conversion - but what i question is can someone hear it? I know that it can be measurable but to a point that it can be audible?

Did you at all read my post?

"dolph"

Yes i did, but i do not attribute to jitter "clicks or muddy soundstages".

But that's a fact.
What's the problem?

"dolph"

Maybe you have a problem..I have no problem. If jitter mostly effects clicks in the signal path and soundstage then I can relax, certain that I need to concentrate on listening. The speed and accuracy of my system, it's ability to reproduce the impact of the attack of cymbals, bells, drums, etc, is so much better than it was in the old days. And yes i'll wait patiently for the industry to get over "loudness."

Well, to me it's pretty obvious that you did not read my post before.
Or didn't understand it.
Whatever..................

You put up a question.
If you don't want any answers but only want to be verified in your own opinions, choises and ideas.............................fine with me.

"dolph"

I understand you really well but i do not concur with you. Or, should i have to concur with you just because you said it was a fact........?! I don't think so.

I know that's a lots of chats and studies about jitter. For example, there is a study by Ashihara (2005) claiming 250 ns as the audible threshold.
Others like Adams (1994) states that there is no absolute threshold because different DAC architectures differs in sensibility to jitter, Ivar Løkken (2005, probably a lecturer at Oslo university) states: audibility threshold decreases from 500ns at low frequencies to as little as 20ps at 20kHz...and many more, but i'd never hear jitter hence the question.

Just go on with your studies trying to analyze music with binaer mathematics.

Once you have a definite mathematic formel on the magic of a Stradivarius, let me know.

"dolph"

Listening is not a mathematical issue but jitter probably is.

Then Why, just why, did you ask in the OP:
"Please may somebody tell me or describe what it sounds like?"

It's obvious that you did not want to read a describtion from one that listen to the music.

Make up your mind.
Do you want an answer to the question you posted in OP or do you wan't somebody to compete with you in mathematical explanations of the phenomenon?

"dolph"

This post has been edited by niklasthedolphin on January 27, 2009 05:56 pm